Mixing Vocals

For general questions or discussion of Auria.

Moderators: Corey W, Rim

timmyg
Expert
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:54 am

Re: Mixing Vocals

Post by timmyg » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:54 am

Again great stuff here, but no sign of anybody giving instructions on how to do achieve this in Auria...if you don't know it's very difficult to find out how.

timmyg
Expert
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:54 am

Re: Mixing Vocals

Post by timmyg » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:20 am

Also when mixing vocals, do you guys do the folllowing:

1) Bounce down instrumental tracks
2) Open bounced track into a new project
3) Record vocals
4) Mix & Bounce vocals
5) Import Bounced vocals back into original project and mix with instrumental tracks

Or would you just simply record them in the same project?

I've read this on a couple of forums and just wondered if this is a good or bad idea?

mrufino1
Expert
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:31 am

Re: Mixing Vocals

Post by mrufino1 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:32 am

It's important to note the amazing arrangements though, that's really why things fit. Download the multitrack of ain't no mountain high enough and listen to the arrangement. 3 guitars,on one track, with their own space, with eq playing little part (or none) in that. Instead, chords voiced to compliment, rather than eq needing to "carve" space. And the piano part- damn! Big bass sound available because the kick wasn't big. Instruments leaving space for those vocals by not cluttering up the notes they'd be singing. And an awesome orchestral arrangement (dig the harp glisses!). Oh, and finally, Tammi Terrell SHREDDING her voice towards the end, with Marvin Gaye banging out the count in with his foot. Just awesome.

mrufino1
Expert
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:31 am

Re: Mixing Vocals

Post by mrufino1 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:34 am

timmyg wrote:Again great stuff here, but no sign of anybody giving instructions on how to do achieve this in Auria...if you don't know it's very difficult to find out how.
I HIGHLY recommend Mike Senior's book on mixing for the project studio. Kenny gioia's mixing tutorials on groove3.com are great at well, and mixerman's zen and the art of mixing book. Then, home recording show podcast, recording lounge podcast are both great with practical examples.

Bob Amser
Expert
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:46 pm

Re: Mixing Vocals

Post by Bob Amser » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:18 am

Looking back through the posts (to pick up more tips ;-) ) I think what the original post-er may want is a more nuts and bolts bit of advice.

In terms of adding bus compression, the idea (I think, at least this is what I do) is that you send, say, all the vocals to a sub group (very easy - tap on the small black box above the Aux1 knob) then slide along to the right and add your compression to the effects strip on the corresponding sub group's strip (the blue coloured strips on the right).

I may have terminology wrong here and it may be that 'bus compression' means you add the compression to one of the aux sends, set it up under 'Aux fx' (on the far right) and dial up the Aux 1 knob on your vocal tracks to the 'right' level (whatever that is!).

I found it reasonably hard to get to grips with compression and LOVE the old timer plugin cos it has presets and seems harder to make a bad sound than the channel strip if you're a newbie. The channel strip does work - all the demo songs do well - but the Old Timer is more intuitive.

Again, more dosh, but I found that adding PSP's MicroWarmer to the master strip effects (the effects button at the very top right of the desk) had an amazing effect of gluing everything together and making it sound more vibrant. You have to go easy on it, though, or you end up being able to hear different parts getting boosted or cut in a noticeable way as the song goes along.

I just keep mixing and re-mixing and it improves each time. One day, I'll get it right :lol:
_________________________________________________
www.soundcloud.com/bobamser

Auria, iTrack Solo, AKG414, Audio Mastering

User avatar
richardyot
Expert
Posts: 635
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:45 am

Re: Mixing Vocals

Post by richardyot » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:21 am

Actually what I meant Bob (glad to hear you're enjoying your new speakers!) was adding the compressor to the master strip, to compress the whole track at once. This video explains it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjgqp7uChD4

And Old Timer might well be a good choice for this because it also adds analog saturation effects to simulate vintage gear.

Obviously this again is a matter of taste, and not necessarily the right choice for everyone, but one of the side-effects of using tape was that it naturally compressed the music (it was a limitation of the format really, in that it didn't have the dynamic range that digital has so the peaks were tamed, it acted like a limiter). And this compression helps to gel the disparate elements of the music together, hence the gluing effect. A perfectly separated mix where everything is clearly audible might be technically superior, but less exciting to actually listen to.

Nonetheless it's hard to give step-by-step instructions as to how you achieve this, because every decision requires judgement - it would be like giving instructions on how to make music, you can't, you just have to get stuck in and try things out for yourself. You might find that your taste is radically different from mine and you actually prefer a completely different approach, and that would be cool, because like anything else that requires some critical judgement only you can know what you like.

User avatar
richardyot
Expert
Posts: 635
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:45 am

Re: Mixing Vocals

Post by richardyot » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:34 am

mrufino1 wrote:It's important to note the amazing arrangements though, that's really why things fit. Download the multitrack of ain't no mountain high enough and listen to the arrangement. 3 guitars,on one track, with their own space, with eq playing little part (or none) in that. Instead, chords voiced to compliment, rather than eq needing to "carve" space. And the piano part- damn! Big bass sound available because the kick wasn't big. Instruments leaving space for those vocals by not cluttering up the notes they'd be singing. And an awesome orchestral arrangement (dig the harp glisses!). Oh, and finally, Tammi Terrell SHREDDING her voice towards the end, with Marvin Gaye banging out the count in with his foot. Just awesome.
That's a great post BTW, and really highlights the connection between music, arrangements, and mixing. The mix should really only be polishing what's already there.

The freedom we have now with digital tools is a double-edged sword, it offers us amazing opportunities and enables us to make professional sounding recordings at home with very little cost - which is great because it allows us enormous potential to be creative.

But the flipside of this is that digital workflows also encourage us to put off important decisions until the mix stage, so rather than working out arrangements with our instruments, we do it in the DAW, and I think this can often lead to muddy thinking. Creating an arrangement at the composition stage forces us to think clearly and make decisions, putting off until the mix leaves us with too many choices and can lead to indecision rather than clarity. It's a bit like photography where using a fixed focal lens rather than a zoom often leads to better compositions because it forces you to think about what you are doing and make more effort and actually move your feet.

timmyg
Expert
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:54 am

Re: Mixing Vocals

Post by timmyg » Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:47 am

Bob Amser wrote:Looking back through the posts (to pick up more tips ;-) ) I think what the original post-er may want is a more nuts and bolts bit of advice.

In terms of adding bus compression, the idea (I think, at least this is what I do) is that you send, say, all the vocals to a sub group (very easy - tap on the small black box above the Aux1 knob) then slide along to the right and add your compression to the effects strip on the corresponding sub group's strip (the blue coloured strips on the right).

I may have terminology wrong here and it may be that 'bus compression' means you add the compression to one of the aux sends, set it up under 'Aux fx' (on the far right) and dial up the Aux 1 knob on your vocal tracks to the 'right' level (whatever that is!).

I found it reasonably hard to get to grips with compression and LOVE the old timer plugin cos it has presets and seems harder to make a bad sound than the channel strip if you're a newbie. The channel strip does work - all the demo songs do well - but the Old Timer is more intuitive.

Again, more dosh, but I found that adding PSP's MicroWarmer to the master strip effects (the effects button at the very top right of the desk) had an amazing effect of gluing everything together and making it sound more vibrant. You have to go easy on it, though, or you end up being able to hear different parts getting boosted or cut in a noticeable way as the song goes along.
Great Bob thanks, I'm really keen to see what the Old Timer can do and espeically the Micro Warmer on the Master Strip...the 'gluing' you mentioned might just be what I'm looking for but I've never gone near the Master Strip yet in any of my mixes!

One more thing; do you usually add reverb/delays to a second aux (so one for compression and one for reverb) or do you just add reverb to the individual channels.

I was thinking I might add Compression & EQ to each individual vocal track and then only bus them for reverb/delay. I'd be interested to hear what you might do.

mrufino1
Expert
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:31 am

Re: Mixing Vocals

Post by mrufino1 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:41 am

At the risk of sounding rude (I not trying to be), try everything you just asked and see how it sounds to you. There isn't a right and wring way to do anything you said. There are technically correct ways of doing things, but if all of those were adhered, there'd be no distortion, no flanging, no phasing, no pre delay, no use of multiple delays, no added reverb, etc.

Learn what each processor does, learn what each processor does in relation to other processors, learn what things sound like with and without. Try presets, but figure out what the preset is doing, then do your own thing with it.

If you want someone to say "do this and it's going to sound great" then you're going to be disappointed, because even if they give you that, what does "sound great" mean? Dave Pensado continually says people are not buying his skill as a mixer, they're buying his taste. If they like what he does, they'll use him, if they don't, they'll use someone else, because there's lots of great mixers out there. But, since they serve the client anyway, they continually experiment and learn new things so they know how to achieve an artist's vision, then take those things and use to them again, perhaps differently.

However, do learn the basics, because that lets you know what you're starting from. Gain staging (each part of the signal chain acting at the optimal level without distorting the next) is very important and not often paid enough attention. As an example though, if you learn that, then when you want to intentionally distort the next stage you know how and why you did.

Just keep working on it like Bob said, every mix gets a little better. And by better, I mean how YOU define better.

mrufino1
Expert
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:31 am

Re: Mixing Vocals

Post by mrufino1 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:45 am

One amendment to what I said, typically you'd do compression and eq on individual channels, if you feel you need them, then use buses for reverbs or delays, but not always. However, resource wise, adding reverb to each chinned separately is taxing, plus since reverb simulates a shared space, it makes sense to share it.

Keep working, it's fun work! Post some mixes here so people can hear what you're doing, it's always good to hear new things and it's good to share work, I think it makes our mixing better when we know people will hear it. I hope it actually does make mine better... :D

Bob Amser
Expert
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:46 pm

Re: Mixing Vocals

Post by Bob Amser » Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:47 am

Agreed, Mark. Great advice.

In terms of the question, I have yet to use the Aux sends at all! I will do next time ;-)

I do most things on each channel. If, for example, a background vocal deliberately gets louder as it goes along, you won't want that compressed much or at all. A main vocal (depending on the style of music) probably does.

You'll find as you go along that you try and get more things right during the tracking phase. I've tried to improve my mic technique, for example, and tend to stop and re-record bits where I make mistakes as I track, rather than leaving it to fix at the end, as I know from experience how much work it takes! I struggle to get compression right, so try and leave very little to do.

A good tip I heard elsewhere is to try and solve as many EQ problems as you can with mic position. For example, if recording an accoustic guitar, I record a few bars then listen back. If it sounds too dull, I move the mic nearer the neck etc. just trial and error - I'm no expert - but given my lack of EQing ability, I'm better off taking time getting a decent sound first off. I've learned, for example, not to EQ the whole mix at all - I always make it sound worse!

I've just been re-doing something on Auria that I'd done on GarageBand initially and the biggest improvement was by re-recording tracks that I'd rushed and been unsure about, rather than trying to polish the proverbial turd!
_________________________________________________
www.soundcloud.com/bobamser

Auria, iTrack Solo, AKG414, Audio Mastering

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 101 guests